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I am so tired of this discussion, but about 3-4 Players a day ask me why I prefer using maces over swords or daggers. Its not easy to explain because its more a gut instinct than anything else. Well there are daggers with very high burst damage, while striking from behind. There are fist weapons with 5% increased chance to land critical hits and swords with 5% chance of an additional attack per swing. Those builts are all about maximizing damageoutput. Maces only have the chance to stun the Opponent for 3 seconds, which does not increase damage at all. What makes that even worse is that most mobs in high end instances and especially bosses are immune to this stun.
This means that a guild basically has no benefit, from taking a mace rogue over a sword rogue. Quite the contrary the total raid DPS decreases when they invite you to the raid. But that is not even nearly all. Blizzard decided to make the gap between mace and sword rogues even bigger. The highend swords always have a higher maximum damage and much better stats compared to maces. Before the introduction of Ahn’Qiraij there were merely 2 epic maces worth getting. Just recently they introduced more epic maces. Let us the current high end weapons: high end swords:
Edited with the updated Weapons:
Gressil compared to the Misplaced Servo Arm does not simply have more dps, it also has significant higher max damage, some attack power and stamina, which makes the weapons by far superior. The Hungering Cold is more a Warrior Offhand but very fast. While the Speed of the Castigator is really too slow to make it a good offhand and too fast to even make it a good rogue mainhand.
By reading this You could question why to go mace at all. Gone fishing to Feralas one day, being a happy Dagger Rogue, I noticed some Horde players invade the Stronghold. Being a mean Person in general I decided to harass them a little bit. I remember quite well, my first sight of a Mace Rogue and laughed at this easy prey. “Mace and Rogue … haha how silly can one be.”
I remember saying in Guild Chatsomething someting like: “/g haha, in Feathermoon is a rogue using maces – such a noob, maces what a Roooooogguuuueeeeee – haha”. About 20 seconds later Elgor replied “Caution Slant, those mace rogues are dangerous”, but I was already dead and was puzzled: “WTF????”.
It took several weeks until I overcame my refusal to even trying maces. But then I decided to make my own picture about using maces and got myself a Mass of Mc Gowan and a Cruel Hand of Timmy as offhand.
What I found was totally different from what I expected. Since my guild rerolled on a German Server I was more or less dependant on myself and decided to get gear via PvP. If maces do 1 thing, they rock in PvP especially versus leather, mail, plate. Just when going for cloth I was missing the daggers burst damage. The extra stun from maces came always in so handy.
It was a good way to stop players from running away and still have combopoints to finish them off. With improved Kidney shot (it lowered the coodown back then) the stuns were especially annoying for casters and warriors who were basically unable to fight back. I compensated the lack of burst damage with cold blood and adapted my playstyle around the weaknesses of a mace rogue.
I enjoy maces because they helped me win critical fights versus other players, even though I had just blue gear versus their tier II epic gear. Maybe that is my source of mace love. If I was able to get to position 6 on Ravencrest PvP Rankings with blue gear, how good can it become with epix?
Other People say that using maces is not roguelike, that it is not stealthy. But there are a lot of scenes from movies and games where a rogue goes to the back of a person and knocks it out with a blunt weapon. Garret in the Thief Pc Game series for example. If he is not stealthy, who is?
It is currently very tempting to go swords, because they are so much better damagewise. But I have adopted my playstyle all around maces and have at least 140 days played time using maces, which makes it quite hard to change back. Apart from that I like being unique, there are not many mace rogues. When You ask other Rogues about their builds then it is some popular build, that some play even though they suck at playing it and even though they do not enjoy it. They just play it because it is THE build for maximized damage.
I just love to play maces and that is the only thing that really matters, it is what makes me enjoy putting all effort in a good performance. I see my rogue more as a pitfighter, since he is so awesome to play in Zerg situations. Currently I am working on getting the Misplaced Servor Arm and the Castigator. Its just bad, when I have to realize that swords and daggers are passed to rogues, while maces are not. Soetimes this makes me dissappointed and angry, especially since rogues passed items to warriors in Naxxramas. Its just a little upgrade to most, while it would be a huge upgrade for me. In the other hand I calm down fast. After all I am in Borked, which means that eventually I will get all items I could ever want. Until then I will just own poor Hordes with my Sandpolished Hammer and Ebon Hand. (edit: got Misplaced Servo Arm and Castigator now and it owns)
Mace rogue rox! imbanerf! ^^
I met Slant also and he hurts a lot. The mace stuns are annyoing as hell
What’s your spec m8? gief !!
My Talents can be viewed on the right under characters or here.
Ahh nice, i got those 2 maces’ Therok’s Nightmace, from Sethekk Halls, you think thats good ? can you give me some tips maybe? =D thx.
Well my goal at the momentis to maximize effects for combat potency. The energy gain with a fast offhand and a good haste rating should really turn out nice. For Slanty I am aiming at Blacksmithing Hammersmith Maces + Blackout Truncheon as offhand. Both have a haste proc. I have no idea how it will be in the end, but its what I am aiming for … currentl I am at 50 with my new rogue. It will take some time until I can confirm. But Terokk's Nightmace is indeed also a good mace.
Mainhanding Dragonmaw and Runic Hammer offhand. Definitely worth the time invested to make the two maces in regards to both PvE and PvP. Zarchaos Lvl 70 Ne rogue Daggerspine(Us)
Well I really prefer the to speed up the weapons a lot and thus I think Blackout Truncheon is a better Offhand. Here is the latest Screenshot. Notice the insane Speed from all procs. Bladefurry, Haste (Assassination Bonus), Haste (Dragonstrike), Blinding Speed Blackout Truncheon & ofc Slice and Dice. Lots of energy from Combat Potency & white numbers flying all over the screen.
Yep i agree a very fast offhand is good for combat potentcy. Im just so sick of PvP and jus decided to get Runic =[ However im gona get dual mongoose, that plus SnD, Bf, Drakefist proc and Abbacus more than makes up for the speed of Runic in comparision to Blackout as well as Runic’s higher Dps.
Well I am too poor to get Mongoose atm
I am working on my 5th 70 atm and I cannot really fit them all with the best atm
Once the Shammy is 70 I will start upgrading the Rogues Gear. I am kind of waiting till the 2.1 Patch and Rogues have imprved sap.
Have you thought about getting the abicus of violent odds? I use it on my main, a dps warrior, witch when fury spec (witch im not often beacuse im one of those omg pvp warriors with deep thunder who always has to be pvp spec 35/23/3) I duelwield Dragonmaw/King’s Defender (kings is my tanking sword and i havent put time into a real offhand yet) With Dragonmaw proc’d, Flurry applyed, Heroism, and the abicus poped i was doing some rediculas dps, (on the order of 2000dps+) this was the aran fight so aggro dident matter so much. It took some farming of mechanar to get it but i think this item is definately worth the grind. beings its Roughly a 25% speed increase every 2 mins, and stacks with other speed increases.
I was very unlucky with Abacusof Violent Odds so far. I am also not sure if I would use it. It has some advantages on fights with vulnerability phases.
Are you sure, that all Haste is added up?
Doing some quick math Dragonstrike = 200 Rating; Assassination = 160 Rating; Blackout Truncheon = 132 Rating; 492 Rating = 31% Speed (15,8 per 1%) + Bladefurry (20%) + Slice and Dice (30%) + Heroism (30%) = 110%
Well a 110% speed inrease should make the weapon 0,0 Speed
But looking at the Screenshot its roughly at 33% speed of normal. So I think at some point I do get more effect on Bladefists Breadth, which inreases every hit by 40-50 Max Damage.
I dislike the short duration from Abacus and am might prefer Kiss of the Spider, since the Haste Duration is 50% longer. Too bad noone is going Naxxramas anymore
Hey Slant… you’re blog has been an inspiration. I finally got my hands on the helm of assassination and when I went to browse the available meta gems I found one that boosts haste and I nabbed it. It offers a 5% chance per melee/ranged strike to increase haste by 240! for 6 seconds. That boost is the biggest that I’ve found so far (second only to S&D). At this point I have the blackout truncheon in my off-hand (Runic in my main) and both have the mongoose enchants (2% boost and a double proc isn’t uncommon).
In my opinion, the haste gem is a definite must have for the whole “high speed bludgeoning” thing – to maximize stuns and combat potency.
Thanks, the Gem looks really nice and a 5% procc chance is definitely worth it. Have to try it out
Well… this has been of great help….
I just happened to come by this site http://shadowpanther.net/, where there are a guide to level blacksmithing to 360 with the drakefist like that, so I started looking for others using maces, to see i fit could be any good….
Reason:
1. I’m a dagger right now, and feel like trying something else plus the fact that mutilate will be a waste in higher instances with poison resitent mobs.
2. theire gonna nerf sword-spec next patch, making it so that a proc cant proc on a proc (sounded wierd). Same will happend with shammys windfury.
The only thing I am abit worried about is the combo points generation…. As I said, I am a Mutilate rogue, and hae also been a Sub-specced both dagger and fist, and those generate combos like crazy. I know you have gone all the way down the combat tree, and the assassination tree with 17 pts.
And a question… how often do you proc the stun thingy from maces. Can you count on it in a fight (PvP or normal mobs). Raid encounters might be immune, I know…
Well a 5% proc Chance is nothing you can really count on, especially not with low hit ratings. For Combat Rogues it is not the usage of combopoints that matters, you basically need to reapply slice and dice and then every other finishing move either as eviscerate or rupture.
Combat Potency is what makes the combat tree nowadays really powerful. To maximize its effect, and to get a a higher chance of stunproccs, you need a lot of hit rating though and lot sof haste. I can imagine that with Tier III BS Mace your Sinister Strikes will do an insane amount of damage for a moderate cost of energy – unfortunatel yI do not have exact numbers, but for my rogue above with the tier I bs mace and low ap I already did more than half the damage on a crit with sinister strike than with eviscerate.
I have the Tier III mace for my shaman and the difference from the Tier I mace is just huge. Also the haste effect will fit in vey well with what I described above. I absolutely love it.
But honestly I have been Combat Mace Rogue since 2005 and never tried Mutilate or Hemo builds. You will lose a lot of burst damage and gain some steady dps over time. I suggest you check the rogue builds of the top guilds on the world and see what they have.
Hey, Well i’ve got pretty good gear and Am mace specd, I’ve just gone Hemo build with BF and AR but ooosh, I can do silly dmg my Hemos are critting for 1900 dmg! just silly
i’ve got DragowMaw btw.
Hehe this blog post really made me laugh
What do you expect? This post is from Vanilla and early TBC. Lots of things have changed